A Run for Second Place?

By: phil | April 4th, 2011
   

Alright, lesson learned – nobody likes Dimitar Berbatov.  The transfer rumors continue to burn, but nothing concrete since yesterday, so we’re going to leave the hot stove alone for a day and talk about something a little more immediate: Bayern’s chances of overtaking Leverkusen for second place.

First, let me state the obvious: we just crawled into third place on Saturday, with a very uninspiring performance.  A top-3 finish and a spot in the Champions League next year is not guaranteed – we could easily lose this weekend and get passed by Hannover.  But since we do occupy third place, and have an unassailable advantage in goal differential in case of a tie, I think it’s at least worth briefly considering the possibility that we might be able to consolidate our current spot AND make a run at the #2 spot.

 

What does she have to do with 2nd place?  Read on ...

What does she have to do with 2nd place? Read on ...

 

Clearly, none of us were hoping for second place in the Bundesliga when this season started.  Given the run we went on last spring/summer, I thought we had a great chance to repeat as champions, and I imagine most FC Bayern fans felt the same way.  Nonetheless, there are a few advantages in finishing second, as opposed to third:

- The second place finisher gets an automatic pass into the Champions League group stage next year, as opposed to being forced to fight through the final qualifying stage.  If Heynckes brings in the kind of reinforcements that are being discussed, Bayern would clearly be a favorite over anyone in the qualifying stage next year.  Still, anything can happen, and it’s better to not even deal with the possibility of getting dumped out before the group stage.  And even if we did easily win the qualifying round, it would require extra mid-week play in the early season – everyone would rather just wait until September to take up CL ball.

- There’s always a little more prestige in second place then third.  Not that should really matter for a club like Bayern, for whom anything below first is a disappointment.  But a second-place finish would allow us to say that only Dortmund (who really did have an amazing year) was better than us this season.  Plus, we’d keep alive our run of not finishing out of the top 2, which we haven’t done since 2006-2007.

- The club could probably take some confidence from their ability to climb two spots in the table in the last two months.  Our February / March was absolutely brutal, but going into the summer break, it would probably be better if the boys came off a few wins.  This is especially true if the club is able to say, “after van Gaal’s exit was assured, we generally played better and won most of our games.”

So, with the understanding that anything could happen (including a drop back down to 4th), let’s consider the likelihood of passing Leverkusen.

The Schedule

We discussed this a bit last week, but here’s a complete run-down of everyone Bayern plays over the last 6 weeks of the season:

 

Date

Bayern’s Opponent

Opponent’s Position

Opponent’s Goal Diff

Apr 9

Nurnberg

6

+5

Apr 17

FC Bayern vs. Bayer Leverkusen

Apr 23

E. Frankf’t

13

-10

Apr 30

Schalke

11

-2

May 7

St. Pauli

17

-18

May 14

Vfb Stutt

15

-3

 

And everyone Bayer Levs plays:

 

Date

Lever’s Opponent

Opponent’s Position

Opponent’s Goal Diff

Apr 10

St. Pauli

17

-18

Apr 17

FC Bayern vs. Bayer Leverkusen

Apr 23

Hoff’heim

9

+3

Apr 30

Koln

10

-11

May 7

Hamburg

7

-1

May 14

Freiburg

8

-4

 

First of all, that April 17 match-up at the Allianz is obviously huge.  If Bayern wants any chance at even getting near second place, they absolutely need a win in that one.  Even a draw would mean the rest of the season would be spent just trying to hold onto third place.

Second, note that Leverkusen’s schedule is sliiiiiightly more difficult than ours over the next 6 weeks.  That doesn’t mean a whole lot, because neither of us are playing mostly top teams, and as we mentioned last week, a team who’s fighting to stay out of the bottom 3 can be as dangerous as anyone.  Still, if we go by just the opponent’s place in the table and season-long goal differential, we have a fairly tough match against Nurnberg this weekend, then we close against bottom-half teams.  Leverkusen has a match they should win this weekend vs. lowly St. Pauli, but then they close with a run of games against mid-table teams.  And Hamburg, their May 7 opponent, may well still be in the hunt for a Europa League spot.

As of now, Leverkusen has a 7 point lead in the table over us, with both teams having played 28 matches.  Now, consider two scenarios:

Scenario 1 – Bayern and Leverkusen both win next week

If we go into the April 17 showdown in the same position as we’re in now, we could beat Leverkusen and still be only within 4 points.  Under that scenario, we could finish perfectly, beating the last 4 opponents (all in the bottom half of the table) and Leverkusen could still stay ahead of us by winning only 3 or 4.  In other words, in any given week, the best outcome we can hope for is a 3-point pickup from a Bayern win and Bayer Levs loss.  If we manage to beat them on April 17 but are still 4 points back, we’d need Leverksuen to drop points in 2 of their final 4 games in order to have a chance – possible, but not likely.  Our other scenario:

Scenario 2 – Bayern beats Nurnberg this weekend, and St. Pauli manages to beat or tie Leverkusen

If this occurs, Bayern is in much better shape.  We’d go into the April 17 show-down behind Leverkusen by only 4 or 5 points, rather than 7.  If we’re then able to beat them on the 17th (that’s a requirement, no matter what), we’d be within a single week’s slip up of catching them.

To clarify, our best chance of climbing into second place takes shape if we beat Nurnberg this weekend AND St. Pauli manages to pull away with at least a point vs. Leverksuen.  Now. St. Pauli is not a great team, but they did play Leverkusen very tight earlier this year, holding them scoreless through 80 minutes and losing only on a late goal.  Plus, St. Pauli is locked in a relegation battle certainly has a lot to play for.  I’m not saying it’s going to happen, but it’s worth watching.  Incidentally, Gol TV is showing this Leverkusen vs. St. Pauli game on Sunday.  So, if you’re in the mood, tune in and root for “The Pirates of the League” – St. Pauli’s nickname, which I just looked up.  If Leverksuen fails to come away with all 3 points, Bayern still has a decent chance to beat them the subsequent week and claw our way into second before the end of the year.

Yes, I know this is a lot of math for a Monday.  It’s that or more Dimitar Berba-talk.  Thanks for reading.


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Comments  

  • htay |  April 4th, 2011 at 11:31 pm

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    phil , according to Scenario 2 if they draw with Pauli there is a chance they can go down in april 30 in Koeln. Koeln is wining 7 home games straight. then we can overtake 2nd place without any problem.

    on April 17 My question is Don Jupp going to play it safe for his future club or will he show as worthy successor to LVG. ????

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  • Phil |  April 4th, 2011 at 11:41 pm

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    Yes, Koln and Hamburg are their best chances to drop points. But I have a hunch St. Pauli can play them close – I'm not saying St. Pauli will win, just think it will be interesting. Of course, Bayern could stink up the jount vs. Nurnberg and we're back to wondering if we can even make the CL next year.

    I imagine Jupp has too much integrity to do anything but play for the best position for Leverkusen the rest of the way. This is the guy who returned his 'Gladbach company car with a full tank of gas the day after he was fired. If we want any points off of Leverkusen, we're going to need to fight through their defense to get them.

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  • Brittany Schrameyer |  April 5th, 2011 at 3:45 am

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    Head is spinning again.

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  • Jonas Skyra |  April 5th, 2011 at 8:29 am

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    I'd imagine he would definitely want to play the next year in the Champions League. However his integrity, I bet that thought slipped through his mind: If he beats Bayern on the 17th, he might coach in the Europa League next year.

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  • quaazi |  April 5th, 2011 at 10:05 am

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    I'd say there is little to discuss here – we have to win every game regardless of the objective being 3rd or 2nd place. Only at the end of the season can we see which is feasible.

    Not that I don't enjoy the speculation though. :)

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  • quaazi |  April 5th, 2011 at 10:09 am

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    Math over Berbatov any day.

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  • Phil |  April 5th, 2011 at 2:51 pm

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    Oh, I'm quite sure he's thought about it.

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  • Cym |  April 5th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

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    Following my calculations, Bayern will take first place on matchday 34. If Dortmund don't play another game / get another point, that is. Surely they can arrange that, right?

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  • hvorfor |  April 5th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

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    I honestly can't wait till next weekend so that I can formulate Scenarios A-Z and their subsequent variables. I honestly hated probability and statistics when I had to learn it in undergrad but if only they told me I could use my power for good…

    Good post and infinitely better than Berba.

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  • smartguy |  April 6th, 2011 at 5:29 am

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    schkale 5 inter 2:
    Shows how poor bayern are this season!

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  • quaazi |  April 6th, 2011 at 9:55 am

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    They barely beat our coachless team with an offside goal on goal difference, they didn't really win the game, we lost it. Of course they weren't going to go far in the CL. And while I did think Schalke has every chance to progress here, the magnitude of Schalke's win… incredible.

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  • gilly |  April 6th, 2011 at 10:28 am

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    is the board interested in buying chelsea defender alex??

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  • Giri Raman |  April 6th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

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    Good analysis, I so wanted to know who the opponents are gonna be for us.

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  • Phil |  April 6th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

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    Yes, according to SpotinGo, Alex was one of our targets at defender. Apparently with Luiz, Invanovich and Terry all on board and healthy, Chelsea doesn't need him anymore. We discussed this in last week's Rumor Round-up.

    Personally, I'm not that impressed. I'd rather have Howedes, Boatend, or Genoa's Domenico Criscito (who can play LB or CB). Alex has a long history of injuries, and I don't know if he has the agility we need. But if the price is right (less than 15 million Euros) I guess Alex wouldn't be a disaster.

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  • Phil |  April 6th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

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    For Bayern? We close with the following matches:

    Nurnberg
    Leverkusen
    E. Frankfurt
    Schalke
    St. Pauli
    VfB Stuttgart

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  • Tomas |  April 6th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

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    And to take nothing away from Schalke's success, Inter was without Lucio and Julio did play like complete sh!t. Im thinking if Schalke played Inter when we did the scoreline would be completely different but thats neither here nor there or even a plausible debate. As I am severely disappointed that we couldnt dump Inter out of CL at home, and Im using 'disappointed' as a VERY polite description, I am happy that another German club is doing what we failed to to regardless of how small this consolation is, it still proves Bundesliga as a whole is better than other leagues and a hell of a lot more exciting to watch.

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  • Dm_BCF |  April 7th, 2011 at 5:13 am

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    Phil…you are doing a lot better than Luke in term of analyzing and stats. I found your post more useful with good fact and figure….Keep up with the good work!

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  • Phil |  April 7th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

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    Thanks! Glad you like my stuff, I am trying to bring a degree of statistical analysis.

    But Luke did some great stuff, too. Now, people have two places to discuss the club instead of one.

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  • Dm_BCF |  April 7th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

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    correct!!! we've been wanting more than one main blog and now it is happening so all the fan must be happy with very insightful stuffs.

    cornercorner


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