Bayern 3 - 3 Bochum
By: Angela | October 4th, 2008
I’m going to completely skip over Mark not playing yet again and how angry this makes me. What kicked off as Daniel van Buyten being absolutely golden followed by Ze Roberto being absolutely brilliant quickly turned into a big mess. I know some of you don’t agree with me and that’s fine, but this is why van Buyten should not be sitting on the bench. Give him a couple games and he’ll settle in and he’s golden. I adore that big beautiful Belgian and I think that Bayern is only giving him half a chance to tap into a very minor portion of his potential. Given the opportunity, he could shine.
This is also what I was looking for in the chance to see how Massimo Oddo plays. The man has some serious talent. Today probably wasn’t his best game, but I can definitely appreciate why everyone is such a fan of his. He plays some brilliant crosses and is pretty quick which is never a bad thing.
Rensing made one very good save, but two major mistakes, in my opinion, that resulted in two goals for Bochum. Really, Bayern should’ve won this game. 3-0 or 3-1. They shouldn’t have left the arena with a draw. There weren’t very many bright spots. I was very pleased with the way that van Buyten and Roberto played. Oddo did decent. I don’t recall even seeing Demichelis. Lucio spent a lot of time falling on the pitch. Rensing I already spoke about. It wasn’t Toni’s day at all. No matter what he tried, it didn’t work. Someone should’ve reminded Schweinsteiger that Bayern were wearing red today and not blue. When Klinsmann made his changes, things rapidly fell apart. The changes didn’t work at all. And I like Ottl, but he’s no van Bommel. Yes, I know that van Bommel and van Buyten are my favorites, but it doesn’t make me so biased that I can’t see when they make mistakes or when they are needed. van Bommel being consistently benched is a problem.
I think that Klinsmann’s preferred line isn’t working anymore and he needs to figure out why. You can’t have a line that consists of one or two productive people during 90 minutes while the rest of the team is virtually invisible. You can’t have a line that consists of one or two people working their respective tails off while people who tend to get things going sit on the bench. This game it was Daniel and Ze. In a previous game it was Demichelis. It doesn’t work when two of eleven people are there to play a brilliant game and others muddle through. Sure, everyone is going to have an off day, but consistently off days aren’t going to make Bayern a team to contend with.
16′ van Buyten - Goal
29′ Kaloglu - Goal
35′ Freier - Yellow
45′ Roberto - Goal
62′ Mavraj - Yellow
68′ Roberto - Goal
74′ Sosa - Yellow
76′ Kaloglu - Yellow
83′ Dabrowski - Goal
85′ Grote - Goal
90′ Oddo - Yellow
Can’t say I feel any different.
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Well, coming back from a two goal deficit inside of two minutes is quite an achievement. Doing so between the 83rd and 85th minute is remarkable. When a team like Bochum does this away from home against a team like Bayern then this is almost unbelievable. Bayern could have easily made it 4-1, 5-1 and 6-1.
I wonder how much of a destabilizing influence a goalkeeper can have on a defense? Germany had a lot of problems at the back during the Euros and this coincided with Jens Lehmann not really being in top form. Though in Germany’s case there was also Christoph Metzelder in central defense who probably messed things up. At the end of the tournament, even Philipp Lahm had degenerated to an extent, that he looked like a poor defender. I wonder whether Bayern’s defense fully trusts Rensing and whether Rensing is communicating enough with the other defenders and whether he has any authority over them?
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Jan: Very good points. I think that, on Rensing’s behalf, it’s probably a little bit of all things. I don’t think they’ve got a reason to trust him completely and he isn’t communicating as much as he should. During the half when they were walking back onto the pitch from the tunnel, they showed Mark talking to him and from Mark’s hand movements it appeared like he was explaining something to him. Perhaps Rensing just doesn’t communicate enough. I don’t know what the problem is right now, but it’s a pretty glaring one in my opinion.
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I am SO disappointed. WHo cares about last year’s record of least goals conceded, but we’re not going to be anywhere near that in my opinion. I am a fan of Klinsmann, but really, this falls squarely on his shoulders. He has essentially the same winning team from last year, and they just aren’t performing. His lack of club experience I think is coming into play. I forget where I read this but his rousing speeches at the half are just not working like they did on the national team.
Furthermore, I think that much of the blame falls on the defensive coaching team too. I mean really every slot in the back is filled by a world class player.
The players really need a resounding win and that opportunity was lost today. Morale cannot be at it’s highest. Even during the losing season of ‘06/’07 things didn’t look this bad. However changing coaches midseason isn’t the answer either. Good or bad I think that’s probably the worst thing the board can do. I’m not going to get panicked untill after the winter break.
Things aren’t out of reach, but we sure are digging ourselves into a hole.
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jocamryn: I am pretty disappointed myself. There really is no excuse for a team that was top of the table all of last season to be playing this poorly. It’s not like they have revamped the team completely. Sure there were some additions and some minor changes, but nothing that significant that they should be playing this poorly. There is no excuse for it.
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I don’t understand, why Klinsmann doesn’t give a chance to Butt. I know he is the 2nd goalkeeper, but Bochum is a smaller team, it is in the lower half of the tabelle, so it wouldn’t have been a huge risk. And we could’ve tried out our 2nd goalkeeper’s skills. I think his team working abilities are better. (I like Rensing though, but he needs some rest and to be out of spotlight and blame)
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Harry: I think that Rensing had some really big shoes fill and it’s always a problem when you’re a predecessor to such a legend like Kahn. I like him as well, but that being said a couple of the goals today were clearly because of mistakes he made, for example when he came completely out of goal and failed to do anything allowing Bochum to score. I agree that he could use a moment of rest. Today would’ve been a great opportunity to give him a moment to himself and give Butt a chance to get some game time.
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It’s a shame that Rensing and Bayern’s defensive lapses overshadow the brilliant lap of honour Ze Roberto is having in his last Bayern season at the moment. I hope Bayern can somehow convince him to stay in the Bundesliga for one more season.
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Jan: I agree. Ze Roberto is absolutely brilliant and he is often the bright spot in a very bleak game these days. It’s too bad it’s hardly getting noticed.
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I think you’re being somewhat harsh on Michael Rensing. Now if the guy has to come off his line in every match then that says something about the supposed defensive line screening his goal? Personally I don’t think Lucio is doing enough to cover Bayerns goal and to warrant his place in the first 11, and Breno has been magificent when he has played. Van Buyten has scored some fantastic goals but he is inconsisent!
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Anyway, what are Ze Roberto’s plans? Does he want to return to Brazil, or retire?
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When it comes to goalies, it takes a season, not weeks to find your place. Rensing was given the chance to improve and he is doing fine, much better than the rest of the team.
Neither vBommel nor vBuyten should play in the line-up, not BM quality, that simple. The squad is not getting any younger, anyway.
With two-three constructive players on the pitch, this is what you get…
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@Harry: I read in an interview that he would like to continue playing for one or two more seasons, but not at Bayern, i.e. another league.
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Harry: Ze Roberto is most likely coming to play in the US after this season.
Ok; the question at this point really becomes..does Klinsmann really have any idea of what he’s doing, and are we in store for continued experimentation that leads nowhere? Or Is he actually learning something? Hamburg and Schalke could win today but it’s still difficult to worry when you see Hoffenheim at the top of the table. I’ve been one of the more patient defenders of Klinsmann, but I also think the influence of a club coach should take hold much more quickly than a national team coach. He shouldn’t be extended the same blank check that he was with the national team, because he has a daily influence on events. Also, this is Bayern, the ordinary rules simply don’t apply. The club had made a tremendous investment in JK’s staff and facility requirements, but neither the fans nor the board will tolerate being outside a European spot at the break, regardless of CL results. That has to be the modest goal. But I really don’t believe he should be treated differently than Felix Magath, just because his name is Klinsmann. This week’s result demonstrated culpability at all levels however, because there were many instances last season where a result like this was narrowly averted, and quickly forgotten. It’s not just Karmic payback for Getafe; a draw like this indicates an incompetence rarely associated with Bayern. The fact that it occurs on the final Oktoberfest weekend, and a day after 1860 presided over a 3-0 romp should not be lost on us watching from afar..many supporters will seethe uncommonly long over this one. Mr Klinsmann has 10 matches to get it right, in my book, but that’s more than many a Munchener will be willing to grant.
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zermatt: I have nothing against Rensing. I think he has the ability to be a phenomenal keeper, but he’s made some terrible mistakes the last games. And you won’t get any argument out of me about Lucio.
Harry: It looks like Ze will be playing his next season in the US under an MLS team.
Luke: As always, you’re brilliant. I agree completely on everything you said about Klinsmann. Just because he -is- Klinsmann it doesn’t mean he should be afforded special privileges.
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this article kind of sums up how things are going with Bayern http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/sep/30/bundesligafootball.europeanfootball what disturbed me the most about this match in particular was that Bocum played poorly and still drew with Bayern after going down 2-1, they were missing tackles, loosing possession of the ball easily and their counterattacks were even breaking down because players were stumbling over the ball. How does a team that plays like that be an even match for the fifth biggest football club in the world and multiple time champions league winner. Klinnsman came to Bayern with a lot of promises that he has not fulfilled. where is the dynamic attacking football he promised? where is the Bayern team that would instill its will on its opponents? instead he gave the fans a slow clunky Bayern without heart or flair that even bottom half of the table teams can score three goals against. I am very disappointed in Bayerns management for not at least giving Klinnsman an ultimatum.
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I don’t know what happened to Klinsi motivational skills,when he was with Germany players looked like they played the heart out for the team while in Bayern most of the team feel like they don’t want to play ,I don’t think Rensing is bad ,he’s just not Olli Kahn ,Podolski deserves a start next match , 3 games without a goal from Klose or Toni
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We are in serious trouble. I wasn’t too concerned until now, but this is too much.
Shadi, that’s the thing, isn’t it? It’s not just the defending, our strikers have been particularly poor lately. The goals have come from midfielders more than from the strikers. I want to see Klinsi man up and bench Toni for once, just to see how it works out with Klose/Poldi. These vaunted tactics of JK just aren’t working — let’s stop the rot, go back to the 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, and then give it a little more time to work on the 3-5-2 in training. I don’t know if JK is trying to teach Van Bommel a lesson, but it’s about time he got back out to the pitch. Let Demichelis get back to defending.
I don’t know about Rensing — I want him to succeed and I want to give him time, but at some point during the game he made a save… and I found myself very surprised.
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Juliet: I agree completely with all you said.
My points have been you can’t appoint someone a Captain, who is suppose to lead and pull the team and then bench him. While Klose has come out and defended MvB, saying he is still class and is still setting an incredible example for the team even while benched (one has to wonder if he was referring to Podolski’s incessant whining for being benched), a Captain’s place is on the field with his team. If you weren’t sure, you shouldn’t have made that appointment.
Rensing I like very much and I think he has the potential to be a class keeper, but the fact of the matter is that when your defense is a mess you need to be able to rely on your keeper and they just can’t do that right now. No one expects him to be an Oli Kahn fresh out of the gate, but there has to be something that this team can depend on and right now there isn’t anything.
>>I don’t know about Rensing — I want him to succeed and I want to give him time, but at some point during the game he made a save… and I found myself very surprised.<<
I had the same reaction and I never wanted to have that happen with Rensing between the pipes. Maybe the media constantly reminding everyone that Bayern has never lost with him in goal was a bit too much pressure. I haven’t got a clue what’s going on, but I certainly don’t like it.Posted from
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John: If it were anyone else, don’t you think that ultimatum would’ve been issued by now? I think it’s about time that someone steps up and realizes that just because his name is Klinsmann, it doesn’t give him free reign to continue down this path.
It is a complete embarrassment that a world class team that competed on a level in which virtually no one could touch them has turned into a team in which practically everyone can not only touch them, but beat them.
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I agree with the last post. They all said last winter that running a club is not the same as the National team. By all accounts we should alreaday have put the first half of the season away by now. Now we have a struggle at all levels of european play. Rotation I think will fall to the wayside and players will have to grind though the season, eventually focusing on one venue whether it be Leage wins or CL progression. We can’t keep playing games like this or count on luck to get anything of substance done this year.
All my translators are laughing at me while boasting of Barcelona and Madrid. It’s an embarassment becasue I really have no good comeback.
I love my team but damn we are all going through their pain
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I am struck by the last sentence of a brief Reuters article about Klinsmann today, a quote from him: “I know where the problems are.”
Even after reading the context of it, it’s a rather staggering statement. Of course there is no admission of error or misjudgment from Klinsmann, so I must ask him: Are you throwing the players under the million-Euro, state of the art, bus? If you know where the problems are, why have you not made any visible progress in affecting change? Is the explanation that you are incapable of correcting the problems?
Klinsmann may have total belief in his knowledge of where the problems are. But he had better be aware that a very dedicated fandom also have their own opinion of where the problems are, and it may not matter who is right, but rather who is louder and more convincing if he wants to keep his job.
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Luke: Once again, I think you’re my hero.
I couldn’t have said it any better myself. You, my friend, rock so hard it’s not even fair to any one else here anymore. 
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Sport bild really is stoking th flames of the MvB vs Klinsi thing. They discussed the reason why he’s been benched. The Hannover game, there were 3 fouls that brought down the team our could have. Specifically the one on one foul in the penalty area against Schlaudraff thast was luckily not called. Basically they blame his style of play. Prior to that there was yellow-red card in only 23 minutes on day 2.
I never read it, but they said that he has criticised the rotation.
Lastly, during the Lyon and Bochum games, he didn’t even warm up during the match.
Bild.de can be sensational at times so take it with a grain of salt.
The whole situation sucks. NOt sure where this may go but if this keeps up who thinks he’s going to leave in the winter pause?
Off topic, Arne Friedrich is would like to go to Milan.
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I will be very sad if he leaves, but to be honest, I wouldn’t blame him if he did. A team that he once wanted to retire in and that he had the respect of fans and team alike, his mates looked up to him and looked to him for guidance has virtually stripped him of all those traits. It’s unfortunate because he is actually a very classy guy whether people want to admit it or not.
I like Friedrich…. he’s under utilized though so maybe Milan is a good place for him.
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United States
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